hazing

[Nika]

just how far is a parent to let bullying go? We all know they are out there, and our little lads and lasses need to learn to handle things, learn to manage situations, but how far is simply too far. What counsel do you all have when a child joins an organization for children, only to find him or herself the target (perhaps one of many) of a bully, or a group led by a bull? When is it hazing, or initiation, and when do we need to step in, verses let it be.....?
Does anyone have scriptural counsel, wisdom in such matters?

[Terri Camp]

This is such a great question! The counsel I usually defer to in most cases is that every child is different so it's difficult to give a clear cut answer as far as what the boundaries are, and even how to know when a child has crossed those boundaries.
Some children are able to allow the comments and situations of a bully to just roll off their backs, and others would have long term affects from such a thing. What I have found is that if a child feels threatened, and he knows his parent is aware of it, yet does nothing, the child will feel that his safety is in question. We are here to protect our children.
Can you give more specifics for a certain situation? It would be a lot easier to respond to more specifics.

[Nika]

Terri Camp said:

This is such a great question! The counsel I usually defer to in most cases is that every child is different so it's difficult to give a clear cut answer as far as what the boundaries are, and even how to know when a child has crossed those boundaries.
Some children are able to allow the comments and situations of a bully to just roll off their backs, and others would have long term affects from such a thing. What I have found is that if a child feels threatened, and he knows his parent is aware of it, yet does nothing, the child will feel that his safety is in question. We are here to protect our children.
Can you give more specifics for a certain situation? It would be a lot easier to respond to more specifics.

Thanks for the response Terri! Yes I can get more specific.... my child is in an organization for boys and a particular young man is very domineering and hurtful repeatedly in his speech at these meetings. My son has witnessed this boy kick other boys in the private parts to get them into submission, or threaten to, and watched his new friends (he is the newbie to the group) cower.... He and I have prayed for him to be strong and to stand firm, no matter what. He went to leadership on at least one occasion and it was on a more minor offense and it was disregarded... I can see why, but in the eyes of my son, well, it was seen that he can not go to leadership, that they want for him to just "deal with it" and so as things escalate he has been more withdrawn. Recently at an evening campfire event the situation got very ugly and this boy with some of his "followers" decided it was "beat on the new kid" time, and all my sons friends scattered like the leaves on an breezy autumn day, and it was he the lone homeschool kid, amongst the wiley school smart kids who ready to kick you know what... and did they! At one point the leader of the pack threatened to "rape" my son 4-5 times. My son fought back (which it seems is not something they are accustomed to )
My son came to us, and I am glad... My husband spoke to the leader about the boys in question, and we are in the "waiting" place... this type of hazing, or bullying is new to me! some say it was social suicide to go to leadership, but it could be murder to NOT go... does a parent go so far as to report such an offense to the police? How far do we step in, what should we EXPECT from the leadership, and if they do not handle the situation as we see fit, what ought we to do? What does God's word have to say on such things. My son just wants this to stop... He just wants to KNOW that we are on top of this and handling this He does not want to quit the group.... gee, motherhood sure ain't for wimps is it?

[Terri Camp]

I really feel for you in this situation. It's not really a public school/homeschool issue. It sounds like the bully is a bully through and through.
I would say if there isn't a good resolution (the bully not be allowed in the group is the only good resolution I see) then I would pull my son out and enroll him in something else. His safety is paramount for you. Assault is a crime and it seems to me like incidences tend to escalate not dissipate.
You didn't mention how old the kids are in question, but I would definitely have in mind to contact the boys parents and let them know their child assaulted your child. I would then let them know in as nice a way as possible that he may do it to another child and get in serious trouble if someone presses charges, which they would have every right to do.
If anyone states to you that "boys will be boys" then punch them in the nose and say, "Moms will be Moms too!" (Of course I'm kidding, but it was fun to play that out in my mind.)

[HappyApple]

I have to agree with Terri. As a parent we are to protect our children.

"some say it was social suicide to go to leadership, but it could be murder to NOT go... does a parent go so far as to report such an offense to the police? How far do we step in, what should we EXPECT from the leadership, and if they do not handle the situation as we see fit, what ought we to do?"

Seriously, if "some say" that it is social suicide to go to leadership, then it sounds like the leadership IS NOT doing their jobs with providing a safe atmosphere for the kids in the group. It "sounds" as if "others" are afraid of the leadership themselves. That should not be the case in a group. I've always looked at leadership as the ones who are there to serve you. In this situation they are to serve you, the parent, as well as serving your child. Part of that leadership role is to make sure that the children are safe.
It seems obvious that they aren't leading the group effectively because of the bullying that is going on. Are the ones in leadership even supervising the kids or just watching it happen? Are there enough volunteers at the meetings to help control the children?
Are you and your husband allowed to participte at group activities with this group?

Like Terri, if this cannot be resolved through the group, or with the parents of the offending children, then it would be better to seek out other activities for your child.

Like I do in some situations... Get out the "big guns." If the direct leadership is not handling this in a matter you seem fit, the go to the leadership above him... if that doesn't work, go higher up! Sometimes.. just go to the top!

[ThirstyBoots]

I had an instance where a child was a bully and would do hurtful things to others. I tried to clue in the parent that this sort of behavior was unacceptable, but evidently it was acceptable to them. When the parent (or leadership in the case of an organization) refused to act, I would be forced to bring in a 3rd party to deal with the situation, i.e. make a police report. I think this is the scriptural way to do it, first go to the brother offended, and if they don't listen, take a couple of witnesses. See Matt. 18:15-19 for the basis of this.

In my situation, the other parent ignored me until I got the police involved, and then they got mad at ME for thinking that their child was going to have a police record because of me! Oh well, if the parent had dealt with it before I had to go to the police, we might not have had to resort to getting the police involved. Don't let the other parent shift the blame to you, because you are doing what you are supposed to - protect your child - and they aren't!!!

Threatening violence is unacceptable, and rape is about as violent as you can get. I don't care if it's looked on as "boys with be boys" or not. Keep speaking up. You are the final arbiter of this for your child, whether you let him continue in a group that ignores personal safety issues or not.

I would hesitate to leave my child alone with someone who I have been warned is bullying and threatening my child. I had to remove children from my own home that I had guardianship over because of violence and sexual aggression towards my biological children.

I would not hesitate to file a police report on the incident. It is best that those sort of things are done without delay so that evidence can be preserved, pictures taken, etc. In my case, I told the police that I was willing to not file charges if the problem was resolved satisfactorily, but if it wasn't, that I was willing to have charges pressed against the person. We had to get the school involved as well, but it did get resolved without charges being filed. I am happy to say that the boy straightened up too. Maybe he (and his dad too) thought I was just some psycho mom blowing smoke, but I think they realized when the police came knocking that this was more serious than a little "boys will be boys" squabble.

My prayers are with you all. Be sure to let us know how it comes out.
Thirsty

[JustPassin'Thru]

How old is your son and these other kids?

I would take my son out of that situation NOW, no matter what my son wanted. I might even file a police report on the kid/bully. (Threatening to rape him is MUCH more than bullying in my book!) Perhaps, after a period of time I would reconsider and approach the leadership to see if anything has been done. If nothing had been done, I would consider filing a report about the group in question.